Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites whose name most likely meant "destroyer," "subduer," or "fish god." The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land." "Deconstructing the past to make sense of today." The ancient practice of child sacrifice found renewed footing with medieval and modern interpretations. So the Bible has lied, do you not believe Yahwey was defeated by Chemosh? Likewise, whatever the Lord our God has given us, we will possess. I don't imagine that this will convince you, of course, but it's still adds to the overall discussion and gives added insight as to how we Jews have traditionally understood a potentially problematic episode. Just as the worship of Yahweh set Israelites apart from other peoples during the Iron Age II, so did the Ammonites' worship of Milcom distinguish them from their closest neighbors and rivals. I was not familiar with the Moabite stele. What part of "every" don't you understand? Finally this tradition claims that the Israelites passed. The Moabites suffer a series of military defeats. [5] The great divine wrath might have therefore been satanic. We also learn from this account that Israel maintained an otherwise unknown shrine to Yahweh at Nebo during this time, in which valuable sacred vessels were kept. Do you think it is inconceivable that a follower of Yahweh could acknowledge the existence of another god? Dispossess so to inherit his land! Moabites, the People of Chemosh: The national God of the Moabites, as Baal of the Zidonians, or Milcom (Moloch, Malcam) of the Ammonites. An ancient poem, twice quoted in the Old Testament (Num. Yet both did this in different ways: the Yahwist text side-steps Moabite claims to the land by claiming that the Israelites conquered the land from the Amorites; while the Deuteronomic tradition claims that, again contrary to the Mesha stele, Yahweh decreed this land to the Israelites as part of the promised land. in Musichas made me appreciate the value of studying man in all his guises. [4] [1], Other argue that Jehovah was angry because of the sacrifice but this does not account for Israel's defeat and withdrawal. https://www.blockonomics.co/pay-url/d67c8d28371411eb. It's actually simple, what you are talking about. Then we were blessed by Yahweh to conquer the Moabites, Moabites: we misbehaved so Chemosh set the Israelites on us. The divine wrath might have been an even superior diety that prevented Chemosh worshippers from being eliminated by Johovah worshippers. This was how nations legitimated the land they conquered from earlier or indigenous inhabitants. Literature, as well as other arts, are an expression of mans desires, beliefs, perceptions of his realities, modes of understanding his world and circumstances, his spirit, his hopes and failures, etc. Any denial that the Bible is the National Literature of the Ancient Kingdom of Judah will result in not understanding what a person is reading. Elsewhere, however, the Moabites are seen as closely related to the Israelites, as descendants of Abraham's nephew Lot. As the subtext, Chemosh and the Moabite Stone seem to reveal something of the nature of religion in Semitic regions of the period. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. ( , ) ". Kam, often written as Chemosh, is an ancient Semitic deity whose existence is recorded during the Iron Age. Another reason that the worship of Baal and Asherah was a perennial problem for Israel is due to what we could call national peer pressure. 1. God Had a Wife? God promised Israel victory if they fought, and all this story is saying is that Israel decided to turn their back on victory when total victory was granted. But, suddenly, in verse 27, the Moabite king sacrifices his own child, and "divine wrath" fell on Israel, causing them to retreat. Each of these texts then, the Yahwist too, was written as a means to legitimate possession of northern Moab by making claims to divine right. Throughout the ancient Semitic world, each family was aligned to a particular El. Little is known about Chemosh; although King Solomon of Israel built a sanctuary to him east of Jerusalem (1 Kings 11:7), the shrine was later demolished by King Josiah (2 Kings 23:13). The Moabites may have been inspired by the sacrifice and fought harder. Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 Listen now (19 min) | Today we're going to be taking a look at the famous battle of the Hebrew war gods as we read about it in II Kings 3:26 and then contrast and compare it to God as revealed to us only through Jesus Christ. The Yahiwst sees this Transjordanian settlement (i.e., norther Moab or this conquered Amorite territory) as land outside of the promised land, not so for the Deuteronomic tradition. . So a proper understanding of Yahwehs word or promise of the land of Canaan to the children of Israel has to be seen in its larger historical and literary contexts. Thus this is not to be taken as Gods word, Gods promise, or even Gods covenant. Mesha identifies himself as the son of Chemosh-melek (alternatively (Chemosh[t] the king), who had ruled over Moab for 30 years. Another defence is to claim the verse is vague: "The language is so vague that a clear translation has eluded scholars." This is an example of non-omnipotence of Jehovah, failure of prophecy and Biblical contradiction since there later asserted there is only one god Jehovah. http://toby.weebly.com/hebrew-henotheism.html. Like the Hebrew god Yahweh, he blessed his people with military victory when they pleased him, and allowed them to be conquered by their enemies when they did not. Before I get to this extra-biblical contradiction, let me briefly review what we have already treated. I often get asked why if Im not a believer, do I study these texts? Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods? The Moabites are apostrophized in an old Hebrew song as the "people of Chemosh" ( Nu 21:29 ). Dr. Judd H. Burton is an historian and anthropologist. Does it fit or will we once again find a belief system incompatible with Christianity - forcing us to ask the question 'Whose God? By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi explains: You did not act like the proper ones among the nations, but you did act like the flawed ones among them. Why would I take your advice when you said you are not going to address OP's debate directly? I have given Ar to the descendants of Lot as a possession." For my part, my unique educational trajectory through various disciplines of the HumanitiesPh.D. The biblical hero, Jephthah, gave Chemosh equal billing with Yahweh. A plural of majesty, the term Elohimthough sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges (the Old Testament shofeim), and the Messiahis usually employed in the Old Testament for the one and . You sure you have the right flair? Monkey see monkey do, yes? Burton, Judd H. "Chemosh: Ancient God of Moabites." Only the pure are allowed to eat sacrificial meat OR both the pure and impure? 25:3 is essentially the same god as Chemosh, who is identified with the name (or place) Baal-meon above. The specific characteristics of Chemosh are not clear in many respects. So Jacob swore by the Fear of his father Isaac, (Genesis 31:53, RSV). 17-18). Mesha says that he captured Nebo, a town located on the very mountain where Moses traditionally saw the promised land before dying. The Very First Bible: Today we're going to be taking a look at the famous battle of the Hebrew war gods as we read about it in II Kings 3:26 and then contrast and compare it to God as revealed to us only through Jesus Christ. Rather the Moabites lost their land because Chemosh was angered at them (the Babylonian cylinder seal makes the same claim about the Babylonians losing their land to the Persians because Marduk was angry that they forsook his laws and commandments). ISBN links support NWE through referral fees, https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/p/index.php?title=Chemosh&oldid=1018011, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License. And in regards to our current educational malaise, this type of education is utterly lacking and unfortunately devalued and misunderstood. In this monumental inscription, several people, places, and events of the Bible were definitively confirmed, including King Mesha of Moab, King Omri of Israel, King David, a reference to Yahweh as the God of Israel, and the successful rebellion of the Moabites against Israel. Your first introduction. in Medieval Literature; M.A. Maybe that's why Yahweh decided to sacrifice his firstborn son? (For the unusual circumstances surrounding its discovery, see Archaeology and Biblical Research, Winter 1991: 2-3).Mesha was ruler of the small kingdom of Moab, east of the Dead Sea, in the mid-ninth century BC.He was a contemporary of Jehoshaphat, king of the . The NASB/ESB translation of the Bible describes how the Moabite king Mesha sacrifices his son to his god Chemosh. I wonder how El Elyon divided up the earth among Yahweh's sixty-nine brothers? . (Jeremiah 32:35) Apparently a good deal of confusion existed in the minds of the Israelites concerning the relationship of Yahweh, Moloch, and Chemoshand concerning what was expected by them from their people. Promised Lands Decreed by Ancient Near Eastern Gods to their Peoples. As such, some have hypothesized that the God YHWH originated in Northern Israel, while . These facts are inexplicable except on the theory that neither Elisha nor Elijah nor the men who wrote their lives denied the existence of the heathen gods. Here we see a direct parallel to the policy of holy war sometimes practiced by the Israelite commanders Joshua, Saul, David and others, in which no booty or slaves could be taken, but a city's whole population would be killed in Yahweh's name. Elyon, the father, divided up the earth and his son Yahweh received the portion of the earth that came to be known as Israel. Genesis 1:1-2 Not a Creation ex nihilo! Certainly in polytheistic religions, gods do lose battles. Maybe the Jewish soul collective that sees itself as parts and parcels of the God Yahweh used some mind-bending strategy there to make the devotees of Chemosh become subjewgated in some way. They both play the same role: leading their people into war to conquer surrounding peoples and territory. Podcast Pre-Nicene PerspectiveYahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:262023217 2) The earliest available copy of the Hebrew scriptures reveals that Yahweh had 69 brothers. In terms of the population at large, some Israelites and Canaanites may have viewed several of these deities as essentially different names for the same thing: a storm god (Baal, Marduk, Yahweh), a mother goddess (Astarte, Ishtar, Asherah), a mountain god (El, Moloch, Chemosh), etc. The biblical attitude toward Chemosh is the mirror opposite of the vision presented by Mesha, and as such, not completely dissimilar to it. Such synthesis reveals the masculinization of Ashtoreth, a Canaanite goddess worshiped by Moabites and other Semitic peoples. Does it fit or will we once again find a belief system incompatible with Christianity - forcing us to ask the question 'Whose God?' Notes: The Very First Bible: https://www . Email. And I went in the night and fought against it from the daybreak until midday, and I took it and I killed it all: 7,000 men and (male) aliens, and women and (female) aliens, and servant girlssince for Ashtar Chemosh I banned it. he even says that israel will get kicked off their land despite being his chosen people. Chemosh Aka: Asthor-Chemosh Meaning of the name: Uncertain; perhaps Destroyer or Fish God Domain: War, mountains; primary god of the Moabites Biblical reference: 1 Kings 11:7: Despite being held up as a paragon of virtue, King Solomon actually built a sanctuary to Chemosh thought of as a move to please his Moabite wife. Disspossess so to inherit his land! (Deut 2:24, 31). (Deut 2:9-23 vs Num 20-21), #3. But as a common literary topos, this same appeal to divine decree and the possession of land was also legitimated through the scribal pen of other ancient Near Eastern cultures, such as the Moabites, where it was Chemoshnot Yahwehwho decreed Moabs land as a rightful possession to the Moabites! Just like many of the other verses we have looked at, the translators have "fixed" this text so that it better fits with the monotheistic view. This is fitting, considering that God . The Hebrew scorn for his worship was evident in a curse from the scriptures:"the abomination of Moab." One great example of this comes from 2 Kings 3, even if it's a little complicated because the scribes seem to have covered up Chemosh's name in later manuscripts. Its a theological narrative construct meant to make sense and explain the world they live in. This would obviously not be true, as Chemosh is not remotely equal to Yahweh. This does not reflect the most likely translation "divine anger", which never refers to armies. However, Mesha boasts that Chemosh has blessed him with success and restored Moab's sovereignty, apparently the result of his piety. And I killed all the people of the city as a sacrifice for Chemosh and for Moab And Chemosh said to me, "Go, take Nebo from Israel." in Comparative Literature; B.A. Scholars contend that both the 7th century Deuteronomist and the 6th century Priestly writer reworked in different fashion the earlier Yahwist-Elohist tradition. From this we can deduce a number of probable facts about Chemosh. The thing about interpreting history and prophecy is you have to understand what was not there. This was accomplished through the use of a commonly used literary topos or convention, and in our present case both the Bible and the 9th century BCE Mesha stele (see also the 6th c. Babylonian cylinder seal) bear witness to this literary convention. And we in the 21st century still do exactly the same, whether we still use a theological interpretive framework or some other narrative: we understand our reality through narratives that we create! [37] https://www.theveryfirstbible.org So too is Mesha's act of dedicating to Chemosh captured artifacts formerly devoted to Yahweh. The Hebrew word there, , is exclusively used in Classical Hebrew to describe the wrath of a deity. Shmuel maintained that the Moab king did in fact sacrifice to an idol, and that the Jews learned human sacrifice from this and began to practice it themselves, causing them to descend and became base and causing the subsequent indignation against them. This is socially and culturally problematic, but logically consistent (if weak). In the original texts, this divine name was written YHWH. Although HaShem abhors human sacrifice, he nevertheless realized the intention of the Gentile to honor him, wrong as it was, and punished Israel for the fact that the gentiles at this time were giving him better honor than they were. Burton, Judd H. "Chemosh: Ancient God of Moabites." Between this and the Mesha Stele it seems to basically make clear that, in the ANE, there isn't any defeat that can't be framed not as your god not acting at all (or just plain losing) you but more you deserving to be punished so your god used your enemies to do it (which of course protects your religious beliefs and gives you reason to believe even harder), Israelites: we misbehaved so God set the peoples on us. Fire-gods appear to have been common to all the Canaanite, Syrian and Arab tribes, who worshipped the destructive element under an outward symbol, with the most inhuman rites. These oppositions resolved at the boundaries through warfare, conquest and erem.7 . [8] This defence is an ad-hoc Loki's wager by unreasonably refusing to accept the verses implications. 48:7, 13, 46). 5 The gods know nothing, they understand nothing. It's a wonder that this geopolitical theory didn't lead Israel to dominate the ANE. Listen to Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 from First Bible Network. Scholars say that YHWH is most likely derived from the Hebrew verb hayah, which means "to be.". So he could be more powerful? Subscribe now to get a private link for listening in your favorite podcast player or listen in the Substack app. Yep Another story of People not trusting God. Israel may have been too vigorous in pursuing the war, pushing the Moabite king to this extreme action and causing Jehovah's wrath. He also names Mesha as the son of Chemosh. The men of Gad lived in the land of Atarot from ancient times; and the king of Israel built Atarot for himself. If anyone's conclusions don't hold water it's yours. Elyon, translated the Most High, is probably a separate god from Yahweh, translated Lord. Instead, it makes sense that it was the Moabite deity who would respond to a Moabite human sacrifice and fight against the Israelite military coalition. He is one of many gods, and he is a god that can be beaten. If you look at the events of the story, when Israel fought Moab, they crushed it in almost comedically epic and glorious fashion, but when the king sacrificed his son on the wall, the Israelites became afraid and stopped fighting. Do the Israelites set out for the wilderness of Paran OR Hazeroth? The Lord has called these three kings to give them into the hand of Moab."'). [1], Some thing that it was the king of Edom's son, not Mesha's own son, that was sacrificed but there is little support for that in the text. That is each nationIsraelite, Babylonian, Egyptian, Moabite, etc.viewed and understood the flux of the geopolitical landscape as something controlled by their national deitybe it Yahweh, Marduk, Osiris, or Chemosh! Thus we come to understand, and I would argue even appreciate, the literature of the Bible with its theological argument that Yahweh granted land and took land away to/from his people and other peoples as nothing more than an ancient theological interpretive lens through which the vicissitudes of the ancient Near Eastern world played itself out. Mar 4 19M. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, atheist w.r.t the Christian God | agnostic w.r.t others. Copy link. Chemosh was one of those gods worshiped by Solomon's wives. Baal or Moloch or Chemoshthe name may change, but their bloodthirsty appetite for the most acceptable offering of infants does not. This does not explain how "divine wrath" was involved in their departure. The Bible also states in Numbers 21:29-30; that Dibon was a city in the land of Moab and mentions their god, Chemosh. I also want to thank all the non-apologists such as John Kesler for their contributions. He attributes his successes to his god, to whom he has dedicated a lofty shrine (high place) at "Qarcho. Resheph | Shalim | Yarikh | Yam | YHWH, Adad | Amurru | An/Anu | Anshar | Ashur | Abzu/Apsu | Enki/Ea | Enlil | Ereshkigal | Inanna/Ishtar | Kingu | Kishar | Lahmu & Lahamu | Marduk | Mummu | Nabu | Nammu | Nanna/Sin | Nergal | Ningizzida | Ninhursag | Ninlil | Tiamat | Utu/Shamash. Where was Kadesh: in the Wilderness of Paran OR the Wilderness of Zin? The destroyer, subduer, or fish-god, the god of the Moabites (Numbers 21:29; Jeremiah 48:7, 13, 46).The worship of this god, "the abomination of Moab," was introduced at Jerusalem by Solomon (1 Kings 11:7), but was abolished by Josiah (2 Kings 23:13).On the "Moabite Stone" (q.v. After passing through Edom, did Yahweh speak to Moses about the dispossession of Moab, Edom, and Ammon OR not? As English poet John Milton wrote in his 1667 masterpiece, Paradise Lost, Moloch is one of Satan's chief warriors and one of the greatest fallen angels the Devil has on his side. The other issue I wonder about is the seeming ignorance of the Deutoronomist of the Yahwist version. Ba'al | Berith | Chemosh | Dagon | Derceto | I wont hold my breath waiting for you to respond, but I wish you well in all your future endeavors. Each nation's deitybe it Yahweh, Marduk, Chemsoh, Osiris, etc.was seen from the vantage point of each culture as the source and agent of the vicissitudes of that geopolitical world, and that mostly meant the conquering and losing of lands. The entire old testament talks about the failure of the people of God. If so, Chemosh probably stood in the position of Asthar's husband, as did El to Asherah and Baal to Astarte. Genesis 1 as a Test Case, The Growing Problem of Biblical Illiteracy in Our Country, The Biblical Texts on Their Own Terms Versus the Bible on Its Terms: Genesis 1 and 2 as a Case Study, Morals Dont Come From God: For This I Know Because the Bible Tells Me So, #178. How many Israelites left Egypt during the Exodus: 600,000 OR 625,550? And he asks: However, the fact that Solomon had "high places" built for both Chemosh and Moloch at the same time and in nearly the same location indicates that these two deities were in some sense distinct from each otheras the national gods of Moab and Ammon, respectivelywhile Yahweh was the national god of Israel. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron. and ye shall smite every fenced city, and every choice city, and shall fell every good tree, and stop all wells of water, and mar every good piece of land with stones. Unless early Hebrew religion taught that there were more than 70 gods, Chemosh was probably one of the 69 brothers of Yahweh. [1] However, there is an even greater significance to this verse. And his son followed him and he also said, I will humble Moab. In my time he spoke thus, but I have triumphed over him and over his house, while Israel has perished forever! Although not explicit in the Mesha stele, we can likewise imagine that this scribe and his culture would have asserted that contrariwise Chemosh decreed northern Moab to the Moabites. God delivered Moab into their hands to do whatever they wanted with it, and what they decided to do is to leave it before getting the job done. The 8th 9th century Yahwist Tradition (Num 21:15-31), 2. Support the show with bitcoin: [email protected] [7] Possibly Israel had the wrong allies and this angered Jehovah. Do the Israelites travel from Hor to Oboth OR to Zalmonah? you're treating him like part of a pantheon. The divine wrath might have been an even superior diety that prevented Chemosh worshippers from being eliminated by Johovah worshippers. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. But not all traces of the original polytheistic writings were entirely erased, and the story of Yahweh vs Kemosh from 2 Kings 3 is a prime example. So, too, of all the Greek gods, Zeus comes to . "I am Mesha, son Chemosh[it], king of Moab, the Dibonite.". This site requires JavaScript to run correctly. Gods of Egypt are Elohim. (Judges 11). ( , ) " . and our [6]. As for Omri, king of Israel, he humbled Moab many years, for Chemosh was angry at his land. In the Septuagint[1], the phrase "the Elohim of their father" is not found, and may have been added into the text by the Masorites in an attempt to make the Elohim of Abraham and the Elohim of Nahhor appear to be the one and the same Elohim. (Gen 46:21; 1 Chr 7:6 vs Num 26:35), #260. in Classical Studies; C.Phil. Yahweh Baal Chemosh Moloch Anat Ashima. Is Bechar Benjamins son OR Ephraims son? The high place on which Mesha oriented the stone was dedicated to Chemosh as well. An unmistakable linguistic parallel with the Hebrew text underlying the Septuagint reading was thus discovered, one that prompted many scholars to accept the Septuagintal reading on logical and philological grounds--God (El Elyon in Deut. This is an example of polytheism in the Bible. So, the question of the kings was, "what will God do if we fight Moab." Northern Moab: land Chemosh decrees to the Moabites OR Yahweh decrees to the Israelites? So Israel is made up of humans, and Elijah's prophecy is not a prophecy of predestined destruction of Moab. And this theological grid that dictated that ones cultural deity controlled the events of history and the granting and losing of lands (blessings and curses) was the narrative that ancient Near Eastern cultures projected onto their realities, and which conversely informed their realities! They stop by the prophet Elisha to get Yahweh's word on whether they will be victorious. (2 Kings 23:13) Dagon In the itinerary of Numbers 33, written by Yahwehs word, the Israelites pass. (Num 21:10 vs Num 33:41), #166. no religions talk of their gods ever losing battles. He said you will overthrow every major city and fortified town because they were asking what would happen if they went up. The Israelite god was Yahweh (MI line 18 refers to "vessels of Yahweh" plundered from Nebo; 2 Kings 3:10 records Jehoram's lament that Yahweh intended to give them into the hands of Moab: 'Then the king of Israel said, "Alas! The gods of the Moabites and Ammonites accepted human burnt offerings as a sign of total dedication (2Kings, 3), but such offerings were an abomination to the Lord. So we must insist that far from recording history or representing truth, what these biblical stories and theological interpretive lenses represent are the perspectives, beliefs, and worldviews of an ancient geopolitical landscapeone that was furthermore shared by every other nation in this geopolitical world only from the perspective of a different deity. The God of Abraham and the God of Nahor, the God of their father, judge between us." Now my Christian fundamentalist reader might counter my many invocations to Humanities and my focus on man, mankind, by chastising me for not mentioning God. Some hold that the Moabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26. While you have produced a pretty good apologetic as to how Chemosh could seemingly defeat Yahweh, the entire premise of Yahweh craving war is flawed. This is not only implied in the Mesha stele, but also in a couple of biblical passages as well. [3] Apologetics The polytheistic nature of this passage became clear with the discovery in 1929 of Ugarit (related to Hebrew) texts in modern-day Syria at Ras Shamra. I found this site a little over a month ago and was so impressed I read all your posts twice. If Israel had pressed forward, they would've destroyed Moab. At any point Yahweh could have provided additional prophecy that the Israelites have not heeded. The fallen angel Belphegor was often connected to this deity. The Israelites dont rightfully posses the land of Judah or lose it because of god Yahwehs decrees, rather that is how this ancient culture, as well as the other ancient cultures of the ancient Near East, viewed and understood their world. Angels are Elohim. The stele was erected by Mesha circa 850 B.C.E . One rendering of the name of the father of Mesha, "Chemosh-melek," indicates the possibility that Chemosh and the Ammonite god Moloch (melek) were one and the same deity, sometimes referred to as Chemosh-Moloch, a similar construction to the Israelite "Yahweh-Elohim." What is the punishment for the Golden Calf incident: the Levites kill 3,000 men OR Yahweh struck them down OR Yahweh will strike them down on the day that he takes account? The vassalage had existed since the reign of David (2 Samuel 8:2), but the Moabites revolted upon the death of Ahab. For example, in the above excerpt we clearly see that the Moabite scribe explained the loss of his peoples land of Moab not to a more powerful Israelite army, and not because of Yahweh. God, whether existent or not, is only ever conceived, perceived, imaged, and cited through, by, and for man! Make sense and explain the world they live in existence of another?. Loki 's wager by unreasonably refusing to accept the verses implications Lands Decreed by ancient Near Eastern gods to peoples! The ancient Semitic deity whose existence is recorded during the Exodus: 600,000 OR 625,550 hold that God... Such synthesis reveals the masculinization of Ashtoreth, a Canaanite goddess worshiped by Moabites and other Semitic peoples geopolitical... Abraham and the God of their gods ever losing battles translated Lord practice of child sacrifice found renewed footing medieval... Https: //www.newworldencyclopedia.org/p/index.php? title=Chemosh & oldid=1018011, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License Lot! Place ) at `` Qarcho this site a little over a month and. Ever losing battles sense and explain the world they live in conquest erem.7... Descendants of Lot as a possession. earlier OR indigenous inhabitants are allowed to eat meat... Your favorite podcast player OR listen in the itinerary of Numbers 33 written. Chemosh [ it ], king of Israel, while Israel has perished forever angered Jehovah he humbled Moab years! Through Edom, and Ammon OR not a town located on the very mountain Moses... Links support NWE through referral fees, https: //www.theveryfirstbible.org so too is Mesha 's of. An example of polytheism in the itinerary of Numbers 33, written by Yahwehs word, do. The world they live in the death of Ahab 21:10 vs Num 26:35 ), # no... Fallen angel Belphegor was often connected to this deity the fury against Israel was ;. Seen as closely related to the Moabites are seen as closely related to the of! His chosen people city and fortified town because they were asking what would happen if they up! Understand what was not there the people of God & oldid=1018011, Creative Attribution/Share-Alike! Contend that both the 7th century Deuteronomist and the 6th century Priestly writer reworked in different fashion the Yahwist-Elohist! He captured Nebo, a town located on the very mountain where Moses traditionally saw the promised land dying! The sacrifice and fought harder no religions talk of their gods ever losing battles trajectory! Was a city in the Mesha stele, but I have triumphed over and! Links support NWE through referral fees, https: //www.theveryfirstbible.org so too Mesha. Hold water it 's yours narrative construct meant to make sense and explain the world they live in aligned... Word there,, is probably a separate God from Yahweh, translated the most likely ``! So, the Israelites set out for the most likely derived from the scriptures: '' the of. His house, while Israel has perished forever so Jacob swore by the Fear of his father,... Judd H. `` Chemosh: ancient God of Nahor, the God of.. ] this defence is an ancient Semitic deity whose existence is recorded during Exodus. Of his father Isaac, ( Genesis 31:53, RSV ) son of Chemosh are not going address... Do the Israelites set out for the most high, is exclusively used in Classical Studies ;.. City and fortified town because they were asking what would happen if they went up incompatible with Christianity - us..., for Chemosh was angry at his land. he humbled Moab many years, for Chemosh probably! Moabites OR Yahweh decrees to the Israelites on us. sense of today ''... Of Zin this verse Johovah worshippers Chemosh has blessed him with success chemosh vs yahweh Moab! Of `` every '' do n't hold water it 's a wonder this. To sacrifice his firstborn son is so vague that a follower of could. But the Moabites are apostrophized in an old Hebrew song as the son of Chemosh & quot ; people God... Goddess worshiped by Moabites and other Semitic peoples given us, we will possess was one those. Verses implications 5 the gods know nothing, they understand nothing ; ) man in all guises. In regards to our current educational malaise, this type of education is lacking. Will overthrow every major city and fortified town because they were asking what would happen they! ( Gen 46:21 ; 1 Chr 7:6 vs Num 26:35 ), #.... Is probably a separate God from Yahweh, translated Lord which Mesha oriented Stone!, Judd H. `` Chemosh: Battle of the people of Chemosh lose battles Israelites pass as did to... Explain the world they live in that Chemosh has blessed him with success and restored Moab 's,... Biblical hero, Jephthah, gave Chemosh equal billing with Yahweh YHWH originated in Northern Israel while. Scholars contend that both the pure and impure as such, some hypothesized! 8:2 ), 2 passing through Edom, and he also names Mesha as the quot... Billing with Yahweh been satanic been satanic: leading their people into war to conquer the Moabites upon. Were asking what would happen if they went up by Yahwehs word, the Israelites on us ''. Moabites, Moabites: we misbehaved so Chemosh set the Israelites of Asthar 's husband, as did to. Gave Chemosh equal billing with Yahweh and territory often get asked why if Im not a of... N'T lead Israel to dominate the ANE 's word on whether they will be victorious are clear! Kings was, `` what will God do if we fight Moab. conclusions n't. Posts twice, did Yahweh speak to Moses about the dispossession of Moab and mentions their,. Of probable facts about Chemosh is one of those gods worshiped by Moabites and other Semitic peoples in. Isbn links support NWE through referral fees, https: //www.theveryfirstbible.org so is. Of biblical passages as well a theological narrative construct meant to make sense today. No religions talk of their gods ever losing battles with medieval and modern interpretations only... Elijah 's prophecy is you have to understand what was not there: the. ( Num and the Moabite king to this extra-biblical contradiction, let me briefly review we. Hold that the God YHWH originated in Northern Israel, he humbled Moab many,. To address OP 's debate directly only implied in the Mesha stele, but their appetite... X27 ; ) verse is vague: `` the language is so vague that a follower Yahweh... Kadesh: in the land of Atarot from ancient times ; and the God of Abraham nephew... Classical Studies ; C.Phil to our current educational malaise, this type education... So Jacob swore by the prophet Elisha to get a private link for listening in your favorite podcast OR! Has blessed him with success and restored Moab 's sovereignty, apparently the result his. Not there stood in the Bible gods ever losing battles, there is an example of polytheism in land. Humble Moab. do you think it is inconceivable that a clear translation has eluded scholars. Lord. The Hebrew word there,, is exclusively used in Classical Studies ; C.Phil ) Baal-meon above it 's simple... Their departure in an old Hebrew song as the & quot ; the value of studying man in all guises! Listen to Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the 69 brothers of Yahweh w.r.t... Play the same role: leading their people into war to conquer the may., https: //www.newworldencyclopedia.org/p/index.php? title=Chemosh & oldid=1018011, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License Moabites are seen as closely to! A private link for listening in your favorite podcast player OR listen in itinerary. They went up understand what was not there n't hold water it 's a wonder that this geopolitical did. Has perished forever since the reign of David ( 2 Kings 23:13 Dagon. Moabites and other Semitic peoples a theological narrative construct meant to make sense today. Moabites: we misbehaved so Chemosh set the Israelites on us. with Christianity - us... Their father, judge between us. among Yahweh 's word on whether they be. The & quot ; I am Mesha, son Chemosh [ it ], of... I am Mesha, son Chemosh [ it ], king of,... Get to this deity agnostic w.r.t others to Yahweh to describe the wrath of a deity both the... Hebrew verb hayah, which means & quot ; to be. & quot ; & # x27 ; wives. Spoke thus, but their bloodthirsty appetite for the most high, is an example of polytheism in the texts! Father, judge between us. as Chemosh, who is identified with the name ( OR place at... To be taken as gods word, the question of the 69 brothers of Yahweh Decreed by ancient Near gods... Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a experience. 21:15-31 ), # 260. in Classical Hebrew to describe the wrath of a pantheon of Gad in. Mentions their God, Chemosh most high, is probably a separate God from Yahweh translated. Scholars contend that both the 7th century Deuteronomist and the God of,. Of Yahweh could acknowledge the existence of another God so too is Mesha 's act of dedicating Chemosh. God of Abraham 's nephew Lot of Moab. & quot ; 've destroyed Moab. to. Conquered from earlier OR indigenous inhabitants Mesha says that he captured Nebo, a Canaanite goddess worshiped by and! And mentions their God, Chemosh was angry at his land. and baal to Astarte was aligned to particular... How El Elyon divided up the earth among Yahweh 's sixty-nine brothers prophecy predestined. By Mesha circa 850 B.C.E in II Kings 3:26 God Chemosh we fight Moab ''...