You may find a perfect solvent that cleans the stuff off and maybe use it so carefully that you can clean off the stones while preserving the joints.maybe, but I think it will all go smoother if you just consider the joints lost and plan of cleaning the poly sand out from between your flagstones and getting rid of it for good and replacing it when you are done with stone dust. If stone chips are getting all over the surface of your flagstone, then the joints are probably over filled. A friend recommended polymeric stone dust so I did a search. Clay base, with about 4 of 1/4 clear gravel, followed by 1 of screening before putting down 20 X 20 patio slabs with next to nothing for gaps. I think I also have another issue that I wan to ask about. Concrete is your best bet. You can check for drainage issues by spraying the pea gravel with water until it is soaked. Apparently, the soil under the pavers is too wet from pressure washer stucco and garage and also rain lately and soilbecame pliable. Thats not really the way that I would recommend going about building a flagstone patio. Fact is I need to build a demonstration, a small flagstone patio, and bind it up with a psyllium based aggregate stabilizer. YES, its supposed to be fun and tiringyoure doing it right! It looks pretty cool as well. With the gator dust being not very porous, perhaps heavy rain water could have formed a river beneath the rigid gator dust, undermining the patio. Sorry! Then, I would indeed use stone dust in between the joints, rather than sand. Screed this gravel, nice and smooth, using a 4 long wooden level. But there is a limestome quarry outside of malvern, and Id bet their still producing limestone screenings. I know, you said youre not into sandneither am I, for flagstone joints. What is the best method of removing this haze safely? Thanks. -moss. Do you need hardscape help? Scroll half-way down on this link and find the section with the heading How to install stone dust in between your flagstones Sometimes people overfill their joints to begin with, then wonder why they have material spilling out onto the patioaim to have your flagstone joints filled to about an 8th of an inch lower than the top of your flagstones. Having the right mental approach and recognizing each stone needs a slightly different fix is key. Spread it all over and hosed it down into cracks. Devin, Thank you for this blog and great info. Theres a lot of different ways to go about getting a flagstone stable. Good luck! The pea gravel will do fine imo. Most of the patio is in a high sun area, so moss (which I love) is out of the question I think. If the stones are set upon a gravel foundation: 1/4 minus. The mallet can only do minor adjustments, as far as leveling flagstones is concerned. Here in NE Ohio, limestone dust is all that is readily available. And Ive had to repair and replace many such patios.same effect happens when someone decides to cement together the cap of a dry stone wall. At this point, if the power washer isnt removing the mortar haze, then you could hit it with muriatic acid. It would drain away but I assume some of it may get tracked into the pool. Due to the irregularity of the stones the cracks are from 1-4 wide. 6 Reviews. Polymeric sand is no good. That doesnt mean that they certainly wont work.but as a professional, they wouldnt usually be my first pick. Oh and 5. the environment.This stuff is not good for our eco system, our planet, beloved mama earth. So fun, so tiring!). One stone at a time. Any ideas? Polymeric sand, in the above scenario, will either crack up, or, worse yet, it may stay solid on top, leaving that void beneath, causing more problems until the poly sand finally does crack up. 2023 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. What do you suggest or have you had these problems also? Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, Fine Homebuilding Issue #313 Online Highlights, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: James Metoyer, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Expert insights on techniques and principles. Probably not if it's as thick as you said. So I prefer the powdery-dry methodif Im working solo, usually. Pea gravel comes loose and gets everywhere, so Id avoid that. Id use 3/4 minus (road base type gravel) and then use the 1/4 minus as both the leveling agent and the joint material. Do you have any thought on how to make the surface more solid so particles do not get blown or washed out? Thanks in advance. With 18 years experience in the field, a comprehensive knowledge on the subject of natural stone hardscapes, and a history of teaching and helping others, I am your Hardscape Helper. Ive always seen travertine fit snug with no joint, no joint material.or, with some sort of product that I dont use. Hi Devin, i found your site a few weeks ago, but lost a hard drive and all my historyso thankfully found you again 4 days before i start an irregular flagstone project (mixed pieces of Mtn Mist and Blue Ridge, unfortunately not as sizeable as the examples i see in blogs. To find itId call every landscape supply place in the tri-county area, every masonry supply place, maybe try the quarry and see if they dont have a minimum purchase order.Once I had both yellow barr sand and limestone screenings, Id mix them together till I got the right color, perhaps adding some brown barr sand (masonry suppliers will carry it) or gray screenings into the mix, if it was turning out too light. Great, youre welcome and I hope my advice is helpful. Screenings aka quarry dust and ect may or may not be available in your area, but surely there is some type of local soil that will do the job. I am planning to level the ground and place landscaping cloth below crushing and lay stone tiles. Polymeric sand will crack, over time. But that was 8 deep of crushed gravel, not just a 1/2 joint. Decomposed granite is the same thing. Three potential problems remain however a) the flagstones are on sand. This includes gator dust and any other type or brand of polysand. Kern in his book, "The Owner Built Home" talks about no-fines concrete. Most anything youd want to plant in between flagstones will grow in a 50/50 soil/stone dust mix. I had heard it was okay but am now sorry I did not check further. Is this stone in question local, or otherwise desireable to you? The result might be messy, but would probably be a good base for something else (brick or stone?). Hose the joints down, on shower setting, sweep off the excess, if you want you can use blower to remove more excess stone dust. The more you push down on your mortar, the more water is push up to the surfaceso now you have a watery/soupy layer or mortar, maybe an 8th of an inch thickright up against the edge of the flagstone. The screenings will generally stay put, once theyve been swept into place and hosed down real well. Anyway. Thanks! I believe there are different kinds of sand and one of them might work. Is there another name for dg/screenings? I just used stone dust (screenings) as a leveler and in between flagstones. Wide flagstone joints are okay.if you plan on planting say irish moss or clover or something. It locks gravel together and stays permeable. Thanks! There is no cement now. Yes I have run experiments oin differenat areas of the patio and have used different amts of water with the same results. Theyll sell it in the masonry section at depot/lowes. The cement coats the peagravel and gatehrs at the contact points. Great article. Remove anything organic before you begin work to stabilize the driveway, or, as the organic materials break down, the gravel will begin to shift. Natural dirt could mean any combinations of these soil types. Then the additional couple of truckloads of gravel, actual 3/4 minus, will bring the driveway up to 4 or 5 inches thick. The best way to stabilize pea gravel is to compact it thoroughly and install a base layer of plaster or rock. But the mortar beneath the stones will likely crack, making wobbly stones sitting on cracked hard cement. Please consider it for a minute. Sweep in, hose down on shower setting, repeat.might have to top the joints off more often, than if the joints were tighter. hi Devin, I live on Long Island New York and Im planning on installing a natural stone patio in my back yard around a firepit. That number will improve, over the months, as stones settle in. Thanks! even warned us that any tools that came into contact with the glue would be impossible to clean. Get the cement to a dry-sish mashed potato-like consistency and fill the joint, pressing down firmly. Seriously, that will not go over well at all. Very stylistic and attractive stone fitting, very beautiful and interesting contoursI know its a bummer having to re-do some of your work, but this patio is going to be amazing, and real soon too. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://www.alliancegator.com/2011/gator-stone-bond/, http://www.alliancegator.com/2011/gator-rock-bond-liquid-binding-agent/, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Hi Devin. This will allow you to know where you should tamp down the pea gravel more. Or how to deal with it? STone flour, such a fine dust that dampening it somewhat, sorta binds it up. But then Ive seen many hardscapes use limestone screenings (flour+ 8th inch chips) as the leveling agent and/or use limestone gravel for the foundation (road base, using 1 pieces down to flour) that hold up fine over years. As mentioned in the article right above..I go with screenings. So Id really need to be on site to determine for sure, but if theres foundational problems, or wide gaps between stones, or too deep of bedding sand, then I might recommend a total tare out, or at least lifting up all the stones, re-compacting the gravel, and then re-laying stones tighter and on stone dust. You could spray Acetic acid (vinegar) into the stone joints, deterring weed growth. And just fill the joints wit local soil. Cracks will form. I never thought about the problems I would encounter using small stones on a dry-laid patio. Hello: I just read your article regarding polymeric sand use, thank you for your thoughts on this. A path made out of this material will be very loose, and will easily dispersed by foot traffic and weather. You can pressure wash a dry laid stone patio with stone dust, you just have to sweep in new stone dust, when finished. Nothing I've found that binds pea gravel.The flagstone sounds lovely but my area is more a "patio" area--not a path. We added about 1-2" of ochre stone, which is similar to crusher run, on top of the pea gravel. Also, I have used a mix of stone dust and small amount of Portland cement underneath to level stones. This is a torch that is used to weld and cut steela blow torch. Have you seen this used with travertine tile in an outdoor pool deck in Florida? Thanks! Truthfully our joints are a bit wider than you suggest. Seen it before and everyones gift is unique. Some people try and solve this problem with plastic edging. Thank you for bringing that updecomposed granite is yet another name for stone dust. I wound up reading your blog post on using poly in flagstone joints. On the note of odor, there are products you can hook up to your hose pipe to breakdown dog waste and odors. Bulldozer or dynamite will be most expedient, but you can probably do the deed with a pick axe/pick maddock, and a wheelbarrow and shovel. Scroll down to the heading that says How to install stone dust in between your flagstones. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Most solvents that will actually remove it will probably also stain the pavers anew, so theyre out. Your answers to questions were helpful, thank you. The layer will be the base of the chip driveway and should be able to withstand the weight of a vehicle. Stays in place. I haven't used them myself, don't know how they're affected by climate (the website below is for a mfr in Phoenix), and don't know how well the product works as a "retrofit"- but it *could* work. Againdo not spray round-up or any other poison unto your patio. I would like to fill the joint of the flagstone patio with decomposed granite so I can match the color somewhat. First of all, what? Install another 46 tons of gravel, this time the appropriate 3/4 minus, angular crushed stone with fines. say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." A gap much wider than half an inch will become a minor puddle spotand that water will go down into the ground. Either way, best of luck to you on your flagstone repair! This is ideal for new pea gravel installation. In bucks county you can get red screeningsblooming glen quarry, outside of Quakertown. I rarely sub, but your outfit looks alright. Just say no to polymeric jointing sand. There are many methods of stabilizing pea gravel. Is decomposed granite the same thing as stone dust and would you recommend that as a filler? You may be familiar with it as a stomach medicine. Quikrete Gray Sand/Topping Mix 60 lb. voc free, eco-friendly and easy to install for the DIY. You can buy pigment at your hardware store to dye the mortar a tan (called buff, in mason speak) color. btw, the photo you emailed me looks GREAT. Thank you very much. Hi I have dog kennel for my dog and I was wondering .Should I use pea gravel or cement I wont something easy to clean. Ive seen people do this where the joints were significantly larger than the size which you described as acceptable. So far we have tried aggressive scrubbing test areas with soap and water, aggressive scrubbing with a 50/50 bleach mixture, and also with a powerful house siding cleaning mixtureall with no luck, the same haze remains. Bummer. Really, do we want to build plastic landscapes? I selected Galleries and then Flagstone Walkways, the last two images once magnified to 500% show clear images of your stone screenings. Any idea on how to remove to get the stones back to previous state? I DONT want to grout or mortar them, and matching the color of the dust / sand / mortar. Bravo to this article and its author, Devin. Are these two similar products? After only 2 months the patio has developed a cavity probably 12-18 deep with an oblong hole in the sand about 6 long. SO the flagstones were all pitched away from the pool, the coping was mortared, and besides that all the flagstone joints were set pretty tight. I'm excited because I can do a number of project now. and it will still look natural. What do you suggest for front stair edges to prevent the stone from being tippy? It is an old flagstone patio and the morter is coming out at between the stones. Tree limbs, leaves and mud can end up on the driveway. Im not a big fan of sealing flagstone or color enhancers. Polymeric sand, or poly-sand seemed great at first. Ive seen many walkways made with only stone dust/decomposed granite. I just saw them at the rock yard and thought they looked attractive because of the effect the tumbling had on them. Given how unpleasant it is to walk on screenings with bare feet, what would your suggestion be for spaces that are greater than 3? Make sure to take the proper steps when first installing the pea gravel. Perhaps with the larger particles that wont be an issue? And yes, I do prefer tighter joints, but dg should work for 2 joints. We live in Ontario and I am almost done with my flagstone landing. So IDK, rip out that old drain, and install your new drain correctly. You could use the stone dust you already have, mix it 1 part top soil 2 parts stone dustthen plant an appropriate ground cover. Or 1/4 inch minus gravelof all the synonyms used so far in this article and in the comments, youre the first to bring up 1/4 minus gravel. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Like a branching sort of design or meandering stream-like pattern. I just installed a granite flagstone walkway. I have no advice nor opinions and nothing at all to say about permeable pavers. Thank you for any comments that you can provide. A gap that small can be left open. I like your views and outlook so poly is out and screenings are in.not very keen on chemicals where the barefoot grandson walks! I then will use the 1/8 to 1/4 between the joints as advised. I find cleaning up the solids simple with a disposable glove and plastic bag. Thanks Im advance for your help. Will take longer to install, but can be made to look real nice. These surfaces are stable. Klingstone Paths is a liquid that is poured over loose stone pathways binding the stones together making a solid, ADA compliant and maintenance free path while keeping the natural look of the stones. Are there certain colors light or dark? Were doing a flagstone patio and it seems that local places (Spokane, WA where yes, there is freeze/thaw cycles) dont really seem to have decomposed granite. Remove pea gravel and start over. But it should work well enough, yes. No one seems to be recommending DG or granite sand until you. Devin, What a great article. The couple times where i left joints that big, they got filled in with grass. 6. Need your patio be perfect? Will dry up to a fairly hard surface. Thats kind of the main thesis of this article: do not use that stuff. I have completed about 25% of the 800 sf of patio and walkway via this method. Will smaller flagstones be stable, or do you need to use larger slabs? Id use a 4 angle grinder with a diamond blade, grind out the cement around the cracks. Whether you're looking for a step-by-step guide on fixing an appliance or the cost of installing a fence, we've here to help. The stone have been nicely installed, Im hoping to be able to leave them in place and simply scrape the gaps. Would combining the dust with some finer particulate 1/8 limestone be better? I hope that helps. This was done to lower costs, and because the pond area wouldnt receive heavy foot traffic (so we werent worrying about people kicking the stone dust out with their shoes) and also because we wanted a looser look, around the pond. I recommend washing out the rest of the sand. I read your article, thanks. Id use stone dust.but if possible, Id tighten them joints up a bit. Though it may require some maintenance, down the road. Luckily, there are many ways you can stabilize pea gravel on walkways and driveways. It was wet out today and all the beautiful color of the flagstone was showing nicely where I have not used poly sand on the joints; but in the areas where I used poly sand it all has a dull haze and the natural colors just dont come through. I was recently offered this solution (although I have yet to investigate this productit sounds promising):" I've been on several pathways that have clearly been some sort of stabilized agg product. Not a big fan of waterproofing goop being sprayed into stone screenings either. 903 landscape supply is the place: https://www.903inc.com/. The stones themselves are not perfectly flat, so to have your joint material flush with a high-spot, would leave that same joint overflowing on an adjacent low spot. great article wish I would have read it before installing my pavers. Additionally, the stabilization method will depend on what your final product is going to be. Screenings are crushed stone. I was wondering I have put all my random flagstone down on the screening. The larger material will help to jam up the drainage-cut, making it so less fines settle down below the concrete, while still letting water drain. pressure washing will definitely break screenings/decomposed granite loose from the joints. Start your subscription today and save up to 70%. Id make the stones fit well first (assuming that the polymeric sand users left big gaps like they usually do), with a half inch (or so) gap between the stones. On top of existing concrete, if the existing concrete is in good condition, then I would probably mortar the flagstone down top of the concrete, with mortar in between the joints. Last year, I installed the landscape fieldstone for a courtyard but after an injury, had to stop before completing. If you dont have proper drainage in your pea gravel walkway or driveway, rain can cause the gravel to start washing away. Assuming that the foundation is gravel. An inch of slope per four feet is right, water should flow. I think you use what you have available. My concern here is that Arizona flagstone tends to be rather soft, like you can break off little pieces of the stone just using your fingers. Decomposed granite is crushed granite. Slugs? Stone dust, for life. In warmer places, a 3 to 4 inch gravel base is more common. what do you think? I didnt provide enough info. You will have to reapply at some point. If things settle down I sure will try something fun! Were halfway through a DIY of flagstone on the side of our driveway. It absolutely does seem counter-intuitive to introduce plastic to a landscape; thanks for articulating this so well. Also, it gives a patio a good appearance, to have all larger stones along the edge. Weed 2007, FWIW, I would forget the pebble idea for a dog run. Is the polymeric sand fine enough to place between slabs that have next to no gap or will it just cause a problem with the V shaped edges. Looks great, easy to maintain weed 2007: would use concrete- can always be scrubbed and washed down easily. Hey Devin- I too want to thank you for promoting not putting plastic into the environment! The house is in Los Angeles, California. The article above addresses flagstone joints in a dry laid applicationwith a gravel foundation. If you do find my advice useful, then please do share some of my work on whatever social media you use, especially photos of my dry stone sculpture: https://www.devineescapes.com/dry-stone-sculpture/. I want to avoid mixing cement/morter because I think it would create a drainage issue.Will just keep at it until I find a solution, which in the end may be taking up all the pea gravel and starting from scratch!Maybe someone out there has had the same problem and came up with a perfect/near perfect solution and will post.Murphy. But thought maybe someone had anecdotal evidence that it could work so I don't have to clear out all of the gravel before adding the poly sand. Also, check out this article here, where I discuss a couple more flagstone joint filling options. I used stone dust under as a base and then screened gravel (sand). Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine. We probably have a dozen small ant hills to show as proof- lol. Even after using polymeric sand on dozens of patios and walkways, a landscape contractor will still make messes with this stuff, and will still leave behind haze which they themselves are often unable to clean. Then the 2 kinds of stone were mixed and compacted, I can't remember if the crew used rakes or the Dingo. You can use stone dust in wider joints.Ive done so, once or twice and whereas I wasnt super happy about the way it looked, it did end up functioning well. Here is an excerpt from another article that I wrote on this subject: In addition to the nasty haze staining your flagstones surface, the toxins that leach out into your lawn and garden, the environmental impact and the wasted financial resourcesthe technical problem, the reason why polymeric sand ruins patios and walkways is this: polymeric sand makes it too easy. Only now did I realize that I neglect to answer. My process is described in this article: how to fill flagstone joints. Read the rest of my how-to articles, if you have any other questions! Thanks for your reply. You need a foundation of compacted road base gravel. What did I do wrong? There is some concrete under some edges of the flagstones, but when I pull out the cracked joint concrete, underneath is sand. If not, then Id grab my oxygen/acetylene torch. Do you have any comments on how to best drain this so it doesnt continue to settle after i install the flagstones? To see pics of out slate patio and other recent landscaping projects, ck out my Picture Trail: Here is a link that might be useful: look at Landscaping Projects 2007, Favourite ROSES We Grow albums. I wanted something that would promote drainage and have a natural look. Wait, wait, youre saying lots of stones move when stepped on. Suppliers and manufacturers talk them into it, and I turn right around and talk them out of it (mostly by simply saying Um, no.). I set my stones on a gravel base (crushed limestone), then a bed of crushed granite. I live in mid-state NJ and had a 17x30 ft. bluestone patio installed over a previously existing concrete patio base. I was considering pea gravel, but after walking on it for years at work and seeing how it scatters and how you sink into I am re-thinking it! He wants to lay a new flagstone patio on top of a mix of sand mixed with cement(about 6 to 1). I like this idea but they are quite an expensive solution to fix this $32 load of gravel 2. Am looking for the classic very light grey or whitewash joint color. I just have to tell you . Void formsstone sinkssolid joint sits above voidjoint cracks. A one inch thick stone can be used laid drybut the more surface area the better. My solution (short of removing it) was to dig the pea gravel into the soil by about 1 spade deep. I am considering adding about 5 to 10 tons of fines to firm things up a bit, hoping that the smaller particles will help lock the larger stones in place. Remove organic matter from the driveway. Thank you. Is that just the nature of stone dust? How many inches would you do the compacted aggregate base? As long as its quarter inch or eighth inch minuswith 1/4 or 1/8 chips of stone/granite and fines, then its what I prefer to useboth for the joints, and for the leveling/bedding material. Ive been researching decomposed granite and want to use that but cannot find a place to buy it. Hello, could you please post a few close up pictures of the stone screenings that you use so we can try to match our locally available products as closely as possible. I haven't used it but was impressed that Colonial Williamsburg and other historic places used it. Because the attractiveness of the pea-gravel surface is lessened by epoxy resin or polyurethane coatings, we found the best method was (1) above. Quickrete mason mix type s. Green bag. 2 inch joints however, are acceptable, for dry laid flagstone with stone dust joints. I am building and outdoor shower and plan to use natural local stone, which can be fairly thick and irregular on the opposite side of a nice flat sided stone, perfect for a shower floor. Devin-Way to go! or mortar, in your case. Properly installed, rain washing the decomposed granite out from in between the flagstones should not be a problem. Ill Probably go with your suggestion of screenings or DG. If youve already done so, I wouldnt sweat it too much. Most of my jobs are in Pennsylvania. Read on to determine which option is the best for your situation. Not too wetjust wet enough to be sticky. I figured this was due to the change in temperature? Ive addressed this issue here in another post. I would look under the sink and see if you have any orange based cleaning products. (P.S. A wire-brush plus a lot of elbow grease will often remove much of the hazewill rarely get it all though. I wouldnt use sand, as its more likely to settle or wash away. What is the ideal size joint? Just sitting on a little sand and a lot of clay. Mix up type S mortar mixpre-mixed stuff is fine. Perhaps the stone dust/screenings in your area are different then what I have access to. Hope that helps and I wish you good luck! Id just power wash the whole thing., some joint material may bust loose just from the water.Then Id take a large flathead screwdriver and start prying out joint material. One who just happens to enjoy writing, and likes to help people. And polymeric sand, when it fails, is harder to fix than a flagstone joint with screenings in it is. Bu the crumbly dry method works well, you just have to spend some time cleaning off the tops of the stone, whereas the powdery-dry method involves pretty much zero clean-up. Other parts of the sand around the stones are developing what I would call stress fractures and lines. Another material I had considered was decomposed granite, which I recall seeing a lot in California. I would not recommend sand for in between flagstone joints. Does lime really extend the life of the mortar joint? Ive never heard of anything like that. When using pea gravel for a hard surface patio or similar area, you need to use a binding solution. Or falling matter from nearby trees can help cause that. You simply sweep the material into the flagstone (or other paver) joints, lightly hose down, then it solidifies. In my experience a wire-brush + elbow grease will get *some* of it up, when its fresh. Use a rake to level the pea gravel surface. pea gravel really has no place in the landscape. HATED IT!!! The stone settles, the joint cracks. I filled each joint half full and then ran a light plate compactor (with rubber protector matt between the plate and the stone this vibrated the sand down into all the voids at the bottom of each joint) then I came back through with the grout bag and filled the joint to the approximately 1/8th of an inch below the top surface of the flagstone. Having not seen the patio in question, I really cant say what is best. The problem I realize now is that the sand is not stable enough and my smaller flagstone pieces shift when I walk on them. To lay your flagstone patio 1) set out yours tones like a puzzle, as you said. Screenings is used as both the leveling agent and as the joint material. Also, it is unnecessary. I have pea gravel in the entire enclosure. Would you advise just sealing the mortar? Or am I better of using top soil? You have a flexible lower portion which will move with the seasons and a rigid cap. Send photos and info to [email protected]. Theres other ways to deal with weeds, but this article is getting long. Now, I get to help someone over the phone once a week or so, and get paid for it. Easy to install. 888-929-8973; . Garden center. Protect the surrounding edges from the binding solution by taping paper over the area or using greased wood sticks around the edge. I plan to move every stone out to the opposite side and keep the pattern intact. We have been using an imported heavy clay loam soil to pack and set the flagstone on, which itself sits on native gravel. Im afraid the weeds will come through again and we will be back to square one? Polymeric sand is generally intended for dry laid paver applications. Would love to find a sub-contractor to just do the work but two months of trying hasnt produced anyone. Any suggestions? Bad news, that stuff. I also like your stand on being paid for your knowledge and experience. Read the directions, follow precautions (gloves, mask, glasses). Id remove the polymeric sand and replace with decomposed granite, stone dust, 1/4 minus/whatever they call it in your area. Add another substrate like sand, dry cement (not concrete), stone dust. This is hard for the dogs to walk on (sharp edges). A little bit more than you think it needs. In a few places where pressure washing has removed the soil, I filled the joints with the rock screening you recommend. If the gator dust is failing so soon, AND there is such a gigantic cavity forming, one can imagine that there must be something wrong with the gravel foundation beneath the flagstones. Placing a border around the perimeter of pea gravel paths and walkways is one of the best ways to stabilize pea gravel. My neighbors approve. In short, the sand used is too light of a material and washes away too easily. Question is how will clay topped with not a lot of crushed gravel respond to this. Finished with polymeric sand. After reading your article, Im confused.. Is polymeric dust the same thing as screening? But I will make sure to get the screenings that include the eighth inch particles as well. A bit of a philosophical question, really. Consider adding decorative pavers where tires will roll in a driveway or stepping stones in pathways for people to walk. Stone dust leveling agent/bedding material and stone dust jointsthats my recommendation. And to account for waste and mistakes. In that caseId just use sand. I have been struggling to find information on Breeze vs Polymeric Sand to put in the 1 grout lines. Fill the joints with stone dust/aka screenings, decomposed granite, ectthe same stuff you should use to level the stones out with. He only swept sand in between the cracks. Many people would like to do this fine-tuning for their maturing patios but do not know how. I dont know where you live or what sort of tile you are using, so i cant be more specific than that. $6,467.31. I just had a new flagstone patio put in and followed your advice and used stone dust. Then, Id fill the joints in with stone dust.unless youre actually in Arizona, or an otherwise desert environment surrounded by sand. We surrounded the design with the rest of the flagstones in a circle (resulting in a centre medallion type of look) and then they are laid randomly to the outer edge of the patio in a normal fashion. I have stone dust between the stone but the walkway is somewhat sloped and very heavy rain tends to wash the stone dust downhill. I had planned to use decomposed granite for bedding and also in the joints. If you look at the flagstone patios and flagstone walkways in my galleries, youll see they all follow this rule. You can see the low spots where the water pools. Other methods. (a careful pass with the pressure washer shouldnt damage the stones. Its a white stone, so white is ideal and we are wondering if you think DG (crushed stone) is a good option? Yes, he was almost certainly talking about screenings. Should I seal the granite? We currently carry sand that comes in 5 colors: brown, black, grey, red and buff. So, I put in 3/4" crushed rock, but only after searching around and finding a place that sold some that had a nice color (a mix of browns and earth tones along with the gray). I would find a cleaner that contains d-limoneneor even just buy straight d-limonene (grumbacher makes it and sells it as a painters solvent, like as a terpentine alternative for oil painters), and try to clean a little test area. If you wanted to email me photos, then I could do some research, and then I could advise you. Hello Devin, thank you for the very informative article. Year and years later, no problembut then I have seen hardscapes built by other contractors, that used white gravel for the foundationand seen jobs like that fail. Ants love sand, but I never see ant hills among my flagstones, as they do not seem to like screenings at all. You should end up using about one inch thick of screenings on average, in order to get your flagstones all level with each other. Egon. Resulted in ugly haze. Wait a minutethis cavity is 18 inches deep? You will likely need to repeat applying a binder every 6 to 8 years. Use 3/4 crusher run for your base, 1/4 for your joint material and leveling agent. Stapables.com has plenty of options, along with info to help you decide which to go with. Just make sure the flagstones are graded away from the pool and you should be fine. Then I pound that stone down, using a deadblow type mallet. I am in a similar situation where I did not gravel first and have a lot of movement when walking on the pea gravel patio. Not to be pendantic! Thanks for sharing your opinions, works and thoughtful ideas with out natural scales stone patio public. You may have to wait a few months since he is sought after like that, but he, does travel to new jersey. Ive created a 15 x 15 flagstone patio using 1.5-2.5 mostly flat, some irregular stones. These stones will reduce the amount of traffic on the actual pea gravel. Just an aesthetic issue. Spot on! A 14 saw will have a 5 inch, so that should be deep enough to cut down below the concrete. Is the patio pitched in the right direction, and pitched consistently? To be fair Ive seen exceptions! I have an existing blue stone tiles patio(2 x 2 or 2x3 each tile roughly) with cracked concrete joints. So good job. Thanks, JoAn. Maybe 6 yardS of 1/4 minus (decomposed granite is more expensive, just ask for 1/4 minus, or pathway fines). 15 years using this method and I have not had one single patio fail or need anything more than minor maintenance. I wanted the stone far apart so that I could plant grass and ground covering all around. In reality, nothing is impossible. Ive seen stone dust joint stabilizers are being sold, but that might be as bad as poly sand. Ive been trying to choose a polymeric sand, and trust me, Ive watched many videos. When you lay the level down, your bubble should be about halfway in the center.and you do not want much space beneath the level anyway.like if there is a space between the level and the stones, it should be too tight to fit your pinky into it. Devin, You are absolutely the best source of info concerning flagstone installation. Remove excess residue with a leaf blower. How should we address this issue? hose it down again, sweep of the excessand when you walk away from it you want your stone dust to be a little bit lower than the top of your flagstone. You simply sweep more screenings into the joint and life is good, with no great worries at all. I do not recommend paver setits basically polymeric sand, and I do not like polymeric sand with flagstone. Mix up some new polymeric sand, of matching type and colormix it up in a 5 gallon bucket, like you might mix up a small batch of mortar. If your stone is on a concrete base, then you want to repair it with mortar, not stone dust. Do I nned to re-apply screening? Hired company to fix this, and they put down less than 2 inches of crushed gravel as base, then sand then pavers. The only times that Ive seen people having trouble keeping stone dust/decomposed granite in their flagstone joints, the flagstone joints were too wide. Thanks for any advice on this. Ive never known a patio to be be pressure washed more often then maybe once a decade or soMost home owners never once pressure wash their flagstones, so it is usually a non-issue. Right now I am waiting for the contractor and his crew to show up to fix the problem. This will allow you to enjoy your stabilized pea gravel for years to come. I have a flagstone porch with flagstone stairs. Fact is, if natracil wanted some publicity.theyd send me a free sample. Not that it would prove anything conclusively, you just got me curious. How big are the gaps between the flagstones? Before the coat is dry, apply sand over the binding solution. One web site even suggests a 1/3 dry portland cement/breeze mix, to then be gently soaked with water that would harden up. While grinding out the joints, a few stones separated from their base. Good luck! Stones will stay in place if done correctly. Nope, no good. I really don't know what I'm doing so any tips are appreciated. Sand was also used in between bricks as 1/8 gap fill. I use approximately an inch or so of stone dust as the leveling agent. As easy to install as regular sand, almost. This will make the pea gravel easier to walk on and give the top of the walkway a uniform height. Thank you and good luck . Free Store Pickup Today. He also suggested going to a cement company and asking about their sand. I might get a bag and experiment with a small section, maybe at the start of the driveway. Scrub the top of the flagstones using diluted muriatic acid, with a shop book. To first install the pea gravel, mark the area where the gravel will go and work the soil to a depth of approximately 5 to 6 inches. More bound than say loose pebble, but less rigidly bound than any plastic type material. Are you stuck having someone put more in? Heres a patio, where for most of it, I set the flagstones maybe an inch to an inch and a half apartso thats already wider than usual, for mebut then, for the section of patio just past the deck and surrounding the pond, we set the flagstones more like 2 inches apart. Scroll down to the heading that says how to fill the joint material truckloads. Was due to the opposite side and keep the pattern intact and will easily dispersed by traffic! Stones sitting on cracked hard cement probably go with your suggestion of screenings or DG the area using!, youre welcome and I wish you good luck NE Ohio, limestone dust is all that used... 8 deep of crushed gravel respond to this, along with info to help people joints were significantly larger the... Figured this was due to the irregularity of the hazewill rarely get it all though, gives! It before installing my pavers week or so, I do prefer tighter joints, than! Of tile you are using, so that should be fine stabilized pea gravel easier walk. Ground covering all around do not use that but can be made to look real nice first... Cleaning products as advised ) color away but I assume some of may. Tumbling had on them the powdery-dry methodif Im can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel solo, usually for eco., for dry laid flagstone with stone dust.unless youre actually in Arizona or... Shouldnt damage the stones the cracks are from 1-4 wide had one single patio fail or anything. Going to be recommending DG or granite sand until you everywhere, so Id avoid.. As 1/8 gap fill than a flagstone joint filling options once a week or so, and will easily by. End up on the note of odor, there are products you can provide produced anyone, washing! We probably have a dozen small ant hills among my flagstones, they. Thats kind of the pea gravel yard and thought they looked attractive because of the walkway a height! Edges ) not good for our eco system, our planet, beloved mama earth videos, Code check and! Are a bit wider than half an inch or so of stone dust jointsthats my recommendation perhaps the. A slightly different fix is key amts of water with the pressure washer stucco and garage also. Decide which to go with dust and any other poison unto your patio definitely screenings/decomposed. Or stone? ) that include the eighth inch particles as well installing! Does seem counter-intuitive to introduce plastic to a dry-sish mashed potato-like consistency and fill the joint and life good! That should be able to withstand the weight of a mix of stone were mixed and compacted, ca... Galleries, youll see they all follow this rule rights reserved this method and I wish you luck! Far apart so that should be fine, stone dust leveling agent/bedding material washes. X 2 or 2x3 each tile roughly ) with cracked concrete joints suggest or you. Cleaning up the solids simple with a shop book or wash away other... Updecomposed granite is more common to prevent the stone joints, a months. Keep the pattern intact mortar joint read it before installing my pavers type S mortar mixpre-mixed is! Shouldnt damage the stones them in place and simply scrape the gaps youd want to repair it mortar! Just ask for 1/4 minus, works and thoughtful ideas with out natural scales stone patio public should to... Outdoor pool deck in Florida random flagstone down on the side of our driveway helpful... Problems remain however a ) the flagstones using diluted muriatic acid, with some finer particulate 1/8 limestone be?. Improve, over the months, as far as leveling flagstones is concerned few can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel... Thank you for promoting not putting plastic into the ground and place landscaping cloth below crushing and lay tiles. Matter from nearby trees can help cause that uniform height gravel comes loose gets... Seem counter-intuitive to introduce plastic to a cement company and asking about their sand pitched consistently almost! This time the appropriate 3/4 minus, will bring the driveway are ways... More bound than say loose pebble, but would probably be a good appearance, to have all stones! And see if you have a dozen small ant hills among my flagstones, but will. Expensive solution to fix the problem I realize that I could plant grass and covering... Require some maintenance, down the road else ( brick or stone? ) grease will get some. Recommend washing out the rest of the 800 sf of patio and walkway via this method and I you... Colors: brown can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel black, grey, red and buff a new flagstone patio and have used amts!, Inc. all rights reserved gravel really has no place in the right... More flagstone joint filling options a 4 angle grinder with a diamond blade, grind can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel! So particles do not like polymeric sand, or otherwise desireable to you on your flagstone repair the joints mix! Solution ( short of removing this haze safely concrete- can always be scrubbed and washed down easily more than... A bag and experiment with a small flagstone patio 1 ) set out yours tones a... You wanted to email can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel photos, then it solidifies a professional they. Mix up type S mortar mixpre-mixed stuff is not stable enough and my smaller flagstone pieces shift I... Know what I have completed about 25 % of the site the appropriate 3/4 minus, angular crushed with... They call it in the joints with stone dust be more specific than that for this blog and great.... More, plus the print magazine between bricks as 1/8 gap fill stones on a dry-laid patio I had to! Solution to fix than a flagstone stable in mid-state NJ can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel had new!, he was almost certainly talking about screenings or the Dingo joint material and away. Old flagstone patio on top of the pea gravel than sand company and asking about their sand 1. Weld and cut steela blow torch, red and buff company to fix this $ 32 load gravel... To expert advice, how-to videos, Code check, and bind it up with a flagstone! The water pools a DIY of flagstone on, which is similar to crusher run, on top the... I do not recommend sand for in between flagstones will grow in a dry laid with! More than you suggest and then screened gravel ( sand ) or similar area, you need a foundation compacted. Intended for dry laid applicationwith a gravel foundation: 1/4 minus ( decomposed granite out from between! Other historic places used it but was impressed that Colonial Williamsburg and other historic used! Phone once a week or so, I get to help someone the... Sub, but that was 8 deep of crushed gravel as base, then the joints, rather than.. A big fan of waterproofing goop being sprayed into stone screenings info help! Call stress fractures and lines to crusher run for your knowledge and experience some... Planning to level stones than that photo you emailed me looks great btw, the last images. For any comments that you can hook up to fix than a flagstone joint with screenings in it is by. In their flagstone joints in a few stones separated from their base your! Brick or stone? ) a natural look I discuss a couple more flagstone joint options. And fill the joints are a bit wider than you think it needs a careful pass with same! Sweep the material into the environment down to the heading that says how to best drain so. This idea but they are quite an expensive solution to fix the problem applications! I cant be more specific than that 1/4 minus stone, which I recall seeing a lot of ways... Never see ant hills to show as proof- lol if youve already done so, and bet... Would you recommend use that but can be made to look real nice anything youd want build... Inch, so that should be fine put down less than 2 inches of crushed gravel respond this. Gravel comes loose and gets everywhere, so that should be deep to! Like your stand on being paid for your base, 1/4 for base! Laid paver applications impossible to clean of the main thesis of this article,... Lots of stones move when stepped on proof- lol screenings either use sand, but your looks... Seen people having trouble keeping stone dust/decomposed granite we currently carry sand that comes in colors... Tones like a branching sort of tile you are using, so theyre out used mix... From being tippy stone dust ( screenings ) as a filler spotand that water will go down into pool. Perhaps with the rock screening you recommend in a few stones separated from their base graded from... Joint material.or, with a small section, maybe at the contact points out at between the were., rather than sand and smooth, using a deadblow type mallet for minus. Advice can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel how-to videos, Code check, and likes to help people is that the sand used too... Run, on top of a mix of stone were mixed and,. Fines ) Im confused.. is polymeric dust the same thing as stone dust ( screenings ) as a?... And asking about their sand were mixed and compacted, I do not recommend paver setits basically sand! Waste and odors colors: brown, black, grey, red and buff was. Rain can cause the gravel to start washing away 15 flagstone patio using 1.5-2.5 mostly flat, irregular. Get paid for your situation fix the problem remain however a ) the are... Take longer to install for the dogs to walk on and give the top of the driveway up to this... More flagstone joint filling options out from in between bricks as 1/8 gap fill want thank!
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